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This interview with John Becker appeared on The David Pakman Show on February 2, 2012.
David Pakman: John Becker’s with us. He’s Communications Director for Truth Wins Out, the website is www.TruthWinsOut.org. It’s great to see you, John.
We recently heard from Alan Chambers that he is now apologizing for decades of saying people can simply quit being gay, kind of an obvious thing that we’ve been following for a while. Are you surprised he’s even saying this?
And I also read on your website that Wayne Besen thinks this may just kind of be hijinks, and he’s saying that it’s more of a behavior versus inborn thing, and what he’s saying is you can’t change the instinct, but you can control behavior, so is this really different?
John Becker: Yeah, I had the same skeptical reaction that Wayne did when I read Alan Chambers’s remarks. It seemed to me that, you know, he can… he’s reading the same poll numbers that all of us are, you know, in that society is coming so far along in its acceptance of LGBT people that it just, you know, there isn’t big enough of an audience anymore for the… for the pray away the gay myth.
So I think it’s just a, you know, a chameleon changing its color versus an actual heartfelt repentence on Alan Chambers’s part. That’s just, that’s my take on it.
David: The thing I don’t get is, he’s still maintaining he used to be gay and is no longer gay, right? So I just don’t understand, is he saying with him in particular it’s true, but when he says other people have done it, it’s not? I just don’t get it.
Becker: Yeah, your guess is as good as mine, because that was another thought that I had: so which is it, you know, Alan? Is it possible for you to change from gay to straight but no one else, you know, because it just, it seems utterly contradictory, you know? But I guess that’s really par for the course, as you know, from looking at Alan Chambers’s past history. He doesn’t really… he doesn’t really do well with factual consistency, so…
David: No, no. And they’re of course continuing to refuse to have him on our show. We’ve sent a number of interview requests. I just have simple questions for the guy that I’m sure he’s been asked before, I don’t know why he’s avoiding the show.
You know, you had this incredible investigation at the Marcus Bachmann anti-gay clinic; what do you think it will take to get ex-gay therapy to be considered malpractice or simply doing harm to patients? And are a lot of these clinics hiding behind saying well, we’re not even really saying we’re licensed medical clinics, therefore we’re not even subject to those regulations? Is it kind of a wishy-washy… is that how they’re hiding behind it?
Becker: Yeah, I think that’s a big part of it. And I think also they’re using the religious freedom angle as an excuse for, like you said, pandering to, you know, scientifically bankrupt ideas, you know, they’re hiding behind the religious freedom angle.
We see this over the entire, you know, the entire anti-gay religious right. They’re doing that… you know, the U.S. Catholic Bishops are doing that to oppose the non-discrimination rules in terms of adoption. They’re saying oh, it’s religious freedom.
And we’re also seeing that from the ex-gay lobby and the people who are still peddling the quote-unquote “therapies” that… they’re also justifying it on reliigous freedom grounds. But like you said, it’s just, it is just a smokescreen.
David: Yeah, maybe the next thing we’ll hear is, what I meant is it’s unlikely people can quit being gay by praying, because most just aren’t praying hard or long enough.
Becker: Yeah, or the right way, you never know. And I mean, and that is really too bad, that Alan Chambers has been declining your interview requests. I mean, you know, you’ve got… you got Bryan Fischer. I don’t know what Alan Chambers feels like he has to be afraid of, unless it’s that he’ll be… he’ll be made to look foolish by his own, you know, answers to your easy questions, like you said.
David: You know what’s interesting about the whole ex-gay thing, it’s that it seems that the ex-gay movement is only within Christianity. I’ve never heard of ex-gay Muslim teachings or ex-gay Muslim experts that can get fellow Muslims to stop being gay, it’s an interesting coincidence it seems to be focused among Christianity.
Becker: Yes, it’s most strongly focused in Christianity, although there is a group called JONAH, which is Jews Offering New Alternatives to Homosexuality, so there is… there is a Jewish ex-gay group as well. So, you know, it’s not exclusive to Christianity, it’s just that’s where most of the attention has been focused, because it’s, yeah, it’s mostly driven by the fundamentalist community.
David: All right, John Becker, Communications Director for Truth Wins Out, www.TruthWinsOut.org is the website. Thanks for doing the interview on short notice, John.
Becker: Thanks so much, David. It’s a pleasure to talk to you, as always.